This 63-Minute Podcast Episode on Compassion Worth A Listen
Review
by Robert Minicucci
CLP-In Training,
Cohort 10
March 2025
“Palliatively Speaking” Host Toby Campbell, MD, speaks to clinicians from all parts of palliative care—physicians, nurses, social workers, scientists, and chaplains. His guests bring guests—a great unexpected switch up that makes for a more interesting conversation. I felt a part of the conversation, as if his guest was speaking to me directly.
Why is this such a great podcast? One reason is that Dr. Campbell doesn’t get in the way. He knows how to ask economical questions that open many doors for guests (Having done some podcast hosting, please know that this is no easy feat!)
In this episode, his guest is Arif Kamal, MD, MBA, MHS, FACP, FAAHPM, FASC. If you don’t know about Dr. Kamal, you should. He currently is the inaugural Chief Patient Officer at the American Cancer Society (ACS). You can find his bio here.
He’s also been—and remains—a(n) oncologist, researcher, medical entrepreneur, palliative care physician, and physician quality and outcomes officer. He also holds leadership positions at the National Quality Forum (NQF), American Society of Clinical Oncology (ASCO), and American Academy of Hospice and Palliative Medicine (AAHPM).
Full disclosure: The Good Listening Project (TGLP) is finishing up a project with ACS and has worked with Dr. Kamal, which I learned recently while writing this review. One happy accident in a line of happy accidents for me as they relate to TGLP.
Some Episode Highlights:
1) The need to pivot from the mindset of saying “You Should” to “Here’s How.”
2) How a story of failure and shame played a defining moment in his life. It made him be brave when he didn’t want to be brave.
3) The notion of “Professionalizing Compassion” as a skill that ought to be recognized for its importance—just as communication skills or leadership skills.
4) The difference between “Transactional Medicine vs. “Relational/Relatable Medicine.”
5) How to practice compassionate care by first considering the patient before a treatment approach. Prioritizing an understanding of who the patient is and what they want can help to choose a more appropriate treatment path.
6) The human side of medicine, the challenges of burnout and the importance of creating a balance between professional responsibilities and personal well-being.
Reader, let me pause and note that in no way was he critical of what oncologists do today. It’s a challenging environment for many reasons, and he articulates his position clearly.
Finally, stumbling on this podcast episode was quite serendipitous; currently a Certified Listener Poet-In Training (CLP-IT), I found great lessons in humility, humanity, and how to better operate in the climate that has settled over this country.
The podcast stays with me.
There’s solace in knowing that such people and providers are out there, still caring, still working on compassion—working to make things better.
It is a touchstone for how I hope to operate as a Certified Listener Poet, as well as someone also trying to navigate the world today.
I hope it also brings you such comfort. And lessons.